Posts by Indian Larry

32

I made my daughters cry last night.....

by Ugottabefresh in

...when i told them i didn't believe anymore.

they cried like i'd never seen before.

my oldest, 10, pleaded with me that she'd do anything to get me to keep going to meetings ("i'll get a's on my report card!").

Indian Larry

Ugggh. I feel your pain. My advice for what it is worth, go very slowly. Make sure they know without a doubt that you love them. Be a good person and be the best father you can be they will come around.

I have always been very close with my daughter, closer than most Dads. I stopped going to meetings several years ago. She goes with her mother. Things were ok until a couple of years ago, she is now in her mid-teens (a difficult time in any parents life) and will soon be getting baptized.

I don't really have a problem with baptism in general, however I do have a big problem with baptism into this organization. This means I will have to go to a circut assembly, my first in several years, to be there for her.

Believe me, I am NOT looking forward to this at all but she needs to know I will always be there for her, and I will. Even if I don't want to.

Just remember you are still their father, they will still love you. I think it is best just to do a good fade and not get the whole DF thing mixed in.

81

Does anyone know what is happening with Italy's (Rome) Bethel???

by LoisLane looking for Superman in

jw
friends

there are rumors out, that the italy (rome) bethel is being shut down and putting out to pasture a large portion of the bethel staff.. has anyone heard anything... ?.

the word is that everyone but the most senior members will be let go.

the senior bethel family members will be reassigned.

Indian Larry

Wow! A couple of months after Morris's visit they get order to shut it down. I am going to assume that the GB is aware of http://proclamatoreconsapevole.blogspot.com and is not very happy about it to say the least.

54

1914 - "A Turning Point In History"?

by Bobcat in

the february 2014 public wt has a cover series of articles dealing with world war i, and by inference 1914. the articles describe wwi as 'causing the world to be changed' and as "a turning point in history.".

setting the wt's defective 1914 chronology aside for a minute, how do these statements about wwi coincide with the view of the nt?.

certainly wwi was a big war.

Indian Larry

1914 was a "turning point" invented after the fact to explain why they were not raptured to heaven that year. One time out of curiosity when I was researching 1914 and I realized that thier cronology was 20 years off I looked up what happened in 1934. You can make just as good of a point for 1934 as 1914. For instance:

1934 was the year that Hitler became “Furher” of Germany.

In December of 1934 Joseph Stalin started the purges which ultimately cost the lives of up to 20 million of his own countrymen. (including millions of Jews)

Hitler vowed to exterminate Jehovah’s people. In October of 1934 he screamed to his Reich Minister of the interior about the Bible Students: “This brood will be exterminated in Germany!”

In 1934 the prominent Nazi propagandist Ernst Bergmann published his work Die 25 Thesen der Deutschreligion (Twenty-five Points of the German Religion) It publicly claimed that Adolph Hitler is the new messiah sent to earth to save the world from the Jews . It also taught that Christ was not a Jew but a Nordic warrior put to death by Jews, and whose death spared the world from Jewish domination.

September 1934 Hitler declared that the Nazi’s will reign for 1000 years. He bragged that the 3rd Reich would be a 1000 year Reich or new Holy Roman Empire.

October of 1934 Hitler secretly expanded the Army and Navy and established the German Air Force. This act broke the Treaty of Versailles virtually guaranteeing war.

1934 Inspectorate of Concentration Camps is established , headed by Theodore Eicke, laying the groundwork for the persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses as well as the extermination of six million Jews.
Most interesting is the fact that it was in October of 1934 that Hitler vowed to exterminate Jehovah’s Witnesses, putting into place the machinery that would lead to the concentration camps.

Italy Invaded Ethiopia in a precursor to WW2

On October 7th of 1934 Witnesses worldwide sent 20,000 letters and telegrams of protest to Hitler.

Not that I believe either date has any significance at all, it is just curious how you can make history fit your view if you want to. And Rutherford wanted to.

15

Resurrection Of The Earthly Class

by sojourner7 in

can anyone tell me what the wt teaches about the resurrection of the earthly class?

do they get completely different bodies or is it a resurrection of the present body?

also, since most of scripture is written for the annointed class, and the annointed class are supposed to go to heaven in spirit bodies, how do they handle romans 8:11?.

Indian Larry

"They use 1 Cor. 15:50 (Flesh & Blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God) to dupe JWs into thinking that the heavenly hope is not open to them."

Ask them to explain how the parable of the sheep and the goats. Jesus said “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him,then he will sit down on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world."

Do they think they are a sheep or a goat. If they are a sheep then they should "inherit the Kingdom" but they think they will have human bodies of flesh and blood. They can't have it both ways. . . . . . well, actually they can. That is the problem.

52

What other religious groups are ...

by EdenOne in

b) teach conditional salvation based primarily on faith in christ?.

c) refuse eternal torment in a literal fiery hell?.

d) refuse the immortality of the soul?.

Indian Larry

http://lhim.org/aboutus/statementofbeliefs.php

19

2013 WT CD Library?

by blondie in

jw
friends

will the wts be issuing one (or has issued onne already?

) or will the www.jw.org online library be the future?.

Indian Larry

St. George, can you upload the CD library to Pirate Bay so we can all torrent it? Drives my family nuts when I have it before them.

8

podcast recommendations?

by Captain Blithering in

jw
friends

a splendid morning to all you good chaps and chapesses in internetland!

i already listen to 'the human bible' , 'healingxjw' , 'infinite monkey cage' , 'doctor karl' ,(aussie dude, great science show) , but im on the lookout for more podcasts to subscribe to, science, bible, apologetics, comedy, you know the stuff...

any suggestions?

Indian Larry

I highly reccomend the following podcasts (podcast name in quotes":

"The Apologetic Front" - Episode2

"Unbelievable" with Justin Brierly is excellent

"Truth Matters" - Very good one.

And don't miss "Theopologetics" episode #9 #51 #50 #93 #106 - These are VERY interesting. Listen in order. Let me know what you think.

39

The Christian Hope--Is it in Heaven or on Earth?

by DS211 in

so is the christian hope in heaven or on earth?.

in acts chapter 1the question was raised: 6 so when they had assembled, they asked him: lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?

7 he said to them: it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.. notice jesus never said thered be a change in venue, just that it wasnt up to them to know when..... so what is there from both sides?

Indian Larry

Actually here is a debate on the very subject. I have listened to it and I think if you are interested in the heaven/earth question you will enjoy this:

Debate on the “two classes”: All New Covenant Christians will Live Forever in Heaven with Christ

39

The Christian Hope--Is it in Heaven or on Earth?

by DS211 in

so is the christian hope in heaven or on earth?.

in acts chapter 1the question was raised: 6 so when they had assembled, they asked him: lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?

7 he said to them: it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.. notice jesus never said thered be a change in venue, just that it wasnt up to them to know when..... so what is there from both sides?

Indian Larry

If you really want to ask your family some questions that will get them thinking but not raise any of the normal "apostate" flags I HIGHLY reccomend listening to this podcast:

http://apologeticfront.com/category/podcast/

The guy never was a witness but he knows them inside out. He is not argumentative or bitter but he raises very good valid questions in a way I have not seen done before. He also has some audio debates with active witnesses for download. I put them on my phone and listen while driving to work. Very Very interesting. Here is a link to a blog post he did on the heaven/earth question.

http://apologeticfront.com/2012/11/10/do-all-faithful-christians-go-to-heaven/

39

The Christian Hope--Is it in Heaven or on Earth?

by DS211 in

so is the christian hope in heaven or on earth?.

in acts chapter 1the question was raised: 6 so when they had assembled, they asked him: lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?

7 he said to them: it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.. notice jesus never said thered be a change in venue, just that it wasnt up to them to know when..... so what is there from both sides?

Indian Larry

Here are some scriptures I looked up about this awhile ago.

(Matthew 5:9) . . .”Happy are the peaceable since they will be called “sons of God”

(Matthew 5:1) . . .”Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them”

(Matthew 5:5) . . .“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.”

Note: Jesus here is clearly describing those who are called “sons of God” and those to whom the kingdom of the heavens belongs to. Of course the Watchtower teaches us that these ones are ONLY the 144,000, but if that is correct than why does it go on to say that “they will inherit the earth”? These scriptures (and others) show that the “kingdom of the heavens” is on “the earth”

Other scriptures that show that the kingdom of the heavens is the same as the kingdom of God.

Kingdom of the Heavens = Kingdom of God

(Matthew 3:1, 2) . . .In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Ju·de′a, 2 saying: “REPENT, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near .”

(Mark 1:14, 15) 14 Now after John was put under arrest Jesus went into Gal′i·lee, preaching the good news of God 15 and saying: “The appointed time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has drawn near . Be repentant,. . .

(Matthew 13:24) . . .Another illustration he set before them, saying: “ The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field . . .

(Mark 4:26) . . .So he went on to say: “ In this way the kingdom of God is just as when a man casts the seed upon the ground . . .

(Matthew 19:23) . . .But Jesus said to his disciples: “ Truly I say to YOU that it will be a difficult thing for a rich man to get into the kingdom of the heavens .

(Mark 10:23) . . .After looking around Jesus said to his disciples: “ How difficult a thing it will be for those with money to enter into the kingdom of God!”

(Acts 3:20, 21) . . .and that he may send forth the Christ appointed for YOU, Jesus, 21 whom heaven, indeed, must hold within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old time. . .

Note: If Jesus will be in heaven UNTIL the times of restoration, does that not imply that he will leave heaven to come to restore the earth? In other words he will be in heaven UNTIL the times of restoration, after that time he will not be in heaven any longer he will be on earth as then he will not be in heaven, he will be on earth.

(Acts 1:11) . . .and they said: “Men of Gal′i·lee, why do YOU stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from YOU into the sky will come thus in the same manner as YOU have beheld him going into the sky.” Note: Jesus coming must be visible according to this scripture. If the apostle “beheld” him going into the sky that means they saw him. If his departure was invisible then they would not have been able to behold or see him. So it seems clear that the manner that they beheld him was visible.

(Matthew 26:29) . . .But I tell YOU, I will by no means drink henceforth any of this product of the vine until that day when I drink it new with YOU in the kingdom of my Father.. . . Note: Jesus here is saying that he will drink from the vine in the kingdom. Are there grapes in heaven?

(Luke 23:39-43) “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise” Note: Since the paradise will be on earth, this scripture implies that Jesus be on earth “with” the evildoer. Just the same as with Abraham, Issac and the prophets of old.

(Matthew 8:11) But I tell YOU that many from eastern parts and western parts will com and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens.

So, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be on earth, and the bible says that they will be in the kingdom of god, but the Jehovah’s witnesses can not be in the kingdom of God because that is limited only to the 144,000 according to the “faithful slave”